while you're able to provide a seemingly endless litany of diary entries, observations, excerpts from letters, etc. all attributed to individuals who authored or executed the constitution, you've continually avoided a question i've directed to you at least 5 times in less than a month: why and how did they manage to create such an excellent constitution which they clearly intended to be the basis of our american government with no mention whatsoever of any god--much less the judeo (not judean) christian (by which you really mean christian christian) faith???



will you also ignore this once more? i provided it as rebuttal (reply 16) when you made the same baseless claim in your 'make like a tree...' diatribe:

adorning the north and south walls (of the us surpreme court building) are friezes depicting 18 great lawgivers: menes, hammurabi, solomon, lycurgus, solon, draco, confucius and octavian on the south wall; justinian, mohammed, charlemagne, king john, louis IX, hugo grotius, sir william blackstone, john marshall and napoleon on the north wall.

per the office of the curator of the supreme court of the united states, those 18 individuals were deliberately chosen to represent secular law:

Weinman's training emphasized a correlation between the sculptural subject and the function of the building and, because of this, [architect Cass] Gilbert relied on him to choose the subjects and figures that best reflected the function of the Supreme Court building. Faithful to classical sources, Weinman designed for the Courtroom friezes a procession of "great lawgivers of history," from many civilizations, to portray the development of secular law.

Note that Moses is not given any special emphasis in this depiction: his figure is not larger than the others, nor does it appear in a dominant position. Also, the writing on the tablet carried by Moses in this frieze includes portions of commandments 6 through 10 (in Hebrew), specifically chosen because they are not inherently religious. (Commandments 6 through 10 proscribe murder, adultery, theft, perjury, and covetousness.)

including a legal system based on god-given law...sharia.

honor thy mother and father is religious?

provide civil or criminal statues requiring mother/father honoring.

show me where it is religious

It seems to be a common action for the average person to think something is OK till they are the ones being questioned or caught in the middle. Our own laws, rules and regulations are beginning to choke us when we create, pass them but never consider the long term results.

What do you mean?

i mean the first commandment or second honor thy father and mother. is something ever civilization on the planet has always held. whether it is a law or not. i was told to show where it was a law. and i said show me where it is religious

But so is do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery and they are all part of the ten commandments just like honoring thy mother and father. Just because it's universal does not make it religion less.

this is what i am talking about

honor mother and father belongs with these if we are talking about not inherently religious

Kingbee commented: "The good news is that Christians may see many of their agenda items made real including a legal system based on G-d-given law...Sharia." My point exactly and excuse the (minor) edits.

The thing is that when you open the door for one religion to be the State religion....you better take into account that people and things change. Lebanon, for example, was once controlled by a Catholic minority. Look at Lebanon today.

KFC: 4. Jefferson read and studied the Quran for the sole purpose in understanding the mind of the enemy solely to defeat them in the Battle of Tripoli. He didn't read it because he thought it was a good addition to the bible.

This is simply untrue, KFC, please take a good look at this article archieves in the Library of Congress regarding the relationship between Jefferson and the "founding" generation and Islam.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html

Be well.

Not really. I'm not really an advocate of prayer in the schools anymore. Not in this culture. We can't go back now. As far as abstinence? Yes. That is a good idea not because of religious ideas so much as it's just a good idea for the kids no matter the affiliation. Actually the Muslims, Christians and the Jewish Religion all would support this.

There is no such thing as "safe sex." There is so much stuff out there they can get never mind the self esteem and emotional issues they're dealing with by engaging in sexual activities even at the tender age of 12. The only "safe sex" is to teach the kids abstinence. What's safer than that? Tell them it can be done. Give them options.



Yes both were taught lessons in school. Where they differed was one claimed it and one did not. I love Corrie as well. I've got some of her stuff as well as Bonhoeffer's. I've got Corrie on tape before she died. She was one amazing lady.

Good article Larry. Lots to comment on here, but no time to do so...maybe later. From a Christian POV I look at this from a spritual viewpoint and I know that Satan's idea of victory is "if you can't beat them, join them." The same thing happening here is similar to that of the 4th century with the Romans joining in with Christianity. Mix them all together, blend them and then take over. That's where we're heading. How long do you suppose it will take to make the U.S. a Muslim Nation under Allah? They seem to like it over here.

Thanks Sodaiho...I'll check that out soon.

you don't know the commandments dan ie lost? no wonder you're having a problem grasping any of this.

don't they have some sorta beginner blog at disney.com?

Good question and while I remember you asking this once or twice on my blog...five times? I actually thought I answered you this when I brought up the subject of John Locke (1632-1704) on my site.

Anyhow, he was an English theologian and political philosopher, and Declaration signers such as John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, and many others sang his praises. John Quincy Adams even made a comment that the Declaration was founded upon the same theory of government expounded in the writings of Locke. So our Declaration had it's beginnings in a theologian's writings.

His writing that most influenced the Founders’ philosophy in the Declaration of Independence was his "Treatise of Government." In fact, signer of the Declaration Richard Henry Lee declared that the Declaration was “copied from Locke’s Treatise on Government.”

If I remember correctly I advised that you go and get this book still available out there. It's actually two treatises in one book.

Locke quoted the Bible in 1,349 references; in his second treatise, he cited it 157 times. Imagine! In the primary work influencing the Declaration of Independence, Locke referred to the Bible over 1,500 times to show the proper operation of civil government. And we wonder why the Declaration has been such a successful document?

While the framers didn't specificially reference God, where did the signers find the ideas of God-given inalienable rights, religious freedoms, liberty of conscience, individualism, limited government, etc? These ideas have now made the Declaration the most successful government document in the history of the world. All of it is based on scripture and it's no wonder it has lasted and been so successful. The sooner we get away from these principles the quicker our downfall.

It's clear that while almost all of the framers and signers of the Constitution and Declaration were strong Christians, referenced by their writings, their desire was for Americans to have Freedom of Religion....not Freedom From Religion.