In the media Israeli Jews are always evil settlers (a word reserved for Jews who happen to live in "Arab land") and baby-killers while Arab Muslims are either oppressed (by the Jews, never by other Arabs) people or terrorists or, increasingly, the second because of the first (since they apparently do not have the capability for evil that Jews have).

Anybody willing to take bets whether Obama's presidency will stop terrorists from attacking Israel or give them hope for change?

I definitely don't have the answer to the problems there that's for sure, but as an outsider that has been to both Israel and Arab countries, I'd have to say I felt much more welcomed in Israel. It could be because Israel culturally parallels the US in many ways, I can understand that, but dispute politics shouldn't all guests feel that way in any country they visit? I'd like all visitors to the US to have a positive experience, regardless of were they are from. So the only conclusion I can make is that the respective value systems are incompatible (in their present form). Will that change, who knows. But even if the Palestinians get territory, some will still not be satisfied (both sides)of that I'm sure.

Nitro,

I keep entertaining the following gedanken experiment:

Dress up as an Arab Muslim and walk through any Israeli city wearing a t-shirt with an Arab nationalist flag. See what happens. (I have seen Arab Muslims do that.)

Then dress up as a Jew and walk through any Arab city wearing a t-shirt with an Israeli flag. See what happens. Compare.

It is important to do the two parts of the experiment in that order for reasons that will become clear during part two.

I often propose as a bet that I would dress up as an Arab (I look dark enough) and do the part in the Israeli city if my worthy opponent, who often just argued that the Arabs want peace and the Jews are racists, would dress up as a Jew and walk through an Arab city. The survivor wins the bet.

Turns out most supporters of the "Palestinian cause" do not trust the Arabs one bit. Something other than their sincere belief that the Arabs want peace seems to motivate their support for their cause.

Leauki, I don't doubt your experiment one bit. It's hard enough traveling as an American even without the flag T-shirt, for better or worse people know.

KUwait anyone?  And they would still be there had not others kicked them out.

And Syria?  (For current events).  No, it is not for lack of desire that the arab states have not conquored others, but for lack of opportunity.   And where the opportunity has presented itself, they have not hesitated.  Indeed, it was Syria, Jordan and Egypt who tried it and failed.

I appologize for my manners.  I read the article, and then got side tracked by the comments.

No one person is going to bring peace to the world.  No class of youngsters are either.  But we must start somewhere, and this is an excellent start.  I have no doubt that all here on JU, and almost all in the world in general, seek and desire peace.  ANd it is not going to be stuffed shirts that eventually make it happen, but those taught that all men (used in the generic sense) are created equal.

This was not some type of propaganda fest (that I can see), but just a determined effort on the part of some citizens to broaden understanding where it is needed most.  And a great way to start.

INdoctrinating youth to a view is not the answer.  Letting them sit down and reason together is.  I hope this outing is continued and expanded.

Morocco has been occupying Western Sahara for decades, ever since the Spanish left it. I'm not saying that Morocco is in the wrong. But it is an occupation of a Muslim/Arab land with terrorist group and everything.

Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait.

Syria had occupied Lebanon until two years ago. The Lebanese do not only remember but staged truly gigantic demonstrations back then to end the occupation.

I think the problem is that Arabs perceive shelling Jewish kindergardens as self-defence (as if Jewish children are the problem; but for Arab nationalists THEY ARE). Until that mindset changes, there cannot be peace.

And that mindset cannot be changed by us standing down. That didn't work with the Germans and Japanese either. They perceive it as weakness and attack again.

No. They must be beaten and their methods discredited. And that can only be done by force.

Co-operation between Jews and Arabs or Jews and Muslims is important, but not because we want to include the terrorists but because we want to show the Arabs the two alternatives: live in peace and friendship... or fecking die.

There can be no compromise with the "death to the Jews" crowd. There are about six million Jews in Israel. What would the compromise be? Three million dead Jews? It's unacceptable.

And what can Israel do about the occupation? Israel has already offered independence several times. The problem is not that the "Palestinians" cannot become independent because of Israel, the problem is that they have always refused to found a state and live in peace with their Jewish neighbour.

They cannot have the old city of Jerusalem. Their religious leaders have already announced that they don't recognise that the old city was the location of the (or any) Jewish temple. To ask the Jews to hand over their holy city to somebody else is nuts. NOBODY would ever demand that the Muslims give up Mecca.

They can have East-Jerusalem though. I have seen it. It's dirty.

I propose the 3D peace plan. It consists of the 3 D:

1. Distance

The PLO must distance herself from Adolph Hitler, Muhammed al-Husayni (Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the 1940s, recruiter for Hitler, and uncle of Yasser Arafat) and Yasser Arafat (al-Husayni's protegee).

This includes not building a gigantic mausoleum for the terrorst leader and demanding that Hitler's henchmen (al-Husayni and Arafat) be buried in the holy city of Judaism.

If there is a legitimate "Palestinian Cause" I am sure it can be represented without Nazi involvement.

2. Demands

The PLO must demand compensation from the Arab League for their calls for Palestinian Arabs to leave Israel when they wanted to attack it. Palestinian Arabs complied with Arab calls to leave the country. They deserve compensation.

My plan is that Israel will compensate the PLO for the Arab refugees while the Arab league should pay the same amount of money to Israel for the Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

Jewish refugees are worth as much as Arab refugees.

3. Desist

The PLO and Palestinian Arabs must desist from killing Jews.

That's the most important point. That's how the conflict started in the 1930s. It must end.

While we are at it we should call on ALL Arabs to stop killing or mistreating ANY ethnic minority, including Darfurians, Kurds, Nubians, Chaldaeans etc..

Israel has never called for the death of Arabs and has always offered peace. If there is to be peace, the Arabs must first move to that level. Then we can compromise.

Incidentally, the Kurdish Muslims in northern Iraq were mostly very happy to meet a Jew.

Islam is clearly not the problem.

I am well pleased with the direction that this discusssion has taken and thank you all for posting, most especially my esteemed colleague Leuki for contributing so much.

It would be terribly remiss of me not to respond to Dr. Guy's comment above, for which I am most grateful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I truly believe that, as Edmund Burke is supposed to have said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for a few good men to do nothing." The organization to which I belong, the JCS of Ann Arbor, is all about teaching our kids that individuals and small groups can bring about positive change.

We don't know yet what the next steps will be. We know that we have opened the channels of communication and that are looking for ways to continue the dialog.

of course you wont see it if you believe the statement preceding it.

I am not going to comment too much on this since we did that before .... you may remember . In fact i outlined it in an article titled "proposal for the promised land" ....

what i will say, however is this:

your view regarding the arabs "want to see all jews dead" is absolutely, categorically dead wrong. ... That is why i said in my first comment " sure it is wonderful ... when reality actually is realized and bias and political agendas are dispensed with..."

as you yourself conceded, the whole problem is political. and in politics, hyperbole is rampant and statements of political figures are taken literally ONLY when convenient.

the nonsense you hear about "destroying Israel" ... is very similar if not identical to what we here in the USA used to say "destroying the evil empire".... these are all political slogans and do not mean that the people in those countries are the target of destruction

Did we really want to destroy the people of the USSR? ... apply the same to any statement regarding "destroying Israel".... it is political slogans ... no more no less.

The arabs and Muslims in general never had this vicious desire to destroy any one .. let alone Jews and Christians whom they are REQUIRED by their religion to protect ....

this fact is really beyond question throughout history ... when Jews were expelled from Europe ... their only refuge was always the arab world .... Egypt, morocco, Iraq, Syria and palastine of course... and they lived there safe and prsperous ....

i know you do not believe any of this ... that is up to you of course....i can just tell you i am speaking from first hand knowledge ... not perception, bias, or anyother desire to misstate the facts on the ground.

when Israel was created ... things changed much ... but that is toward the political entity ... not the people ...

if you keep that in mind .... things can and should change back to the good old days there if and only if a mutually-satisfactory solution could be found for the problem.

but even if the problem stays ... trust me ... no one knows more than the arabs how the good old days of coexistence of arabs/jews/christians can produce the best in the three of them.

sorry if i dont live-up to my promise not to comment too much here... but i have to say something about Leauki's staments here:

HEEEEEYYYAAAA finally the fact prevailed ...

that shows us all that reasonable discussions always reveal the truth ....

I did not say "That enforced the military occupation of another country", but "That enforce", present tense.

As I said, it's not about what the the people in those countries really want, but how they see the situation. In their mind, Israel is in the wrong, and is not acting properly to bring peace. Wether you agree with them is irrelevant to the point, go argue with THEM.

First of all, it was about _many_ Arabs, not _Arabs_ as such.

Second, it is NOT absolutely, categorically wrong.

The Arabs did invade Israel several times with the stated goal to kill all the Jews. Arab radio stations were chanting "Death to the Jews!". Heck, Arab television even has children's television show that instruct Arab children to kill Jews. I would say that "absolutely, categorically wrong" is a bit strong a statement given those facts.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, an Arab leader at the time, said in 1944 (in Berlin):

"Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you."

A PLO spokesman said before the six day war about the planned attack about the Jews:

"Those who survive will remain in Palestine. I estimate that none of them will survive."

And when I was in Iraq the Kurdish lieutenant warned me not to tell anybody further south that I was Jewish. He seemed worried. He apparently didn't know that claims about many Arabs wanting Jews dead were "absolutely, categorically wrong".

Similarly, when Hizbullah shelled my university ("resistance" against Jewish students, no doubt) and called for all Jews to assemble in northern Israel so they could be killed, could surely be understood as a wish to kill Jews.

So I suggest until Saudi-Arabia changes its laws to remove the death penalty for Judaism, Hamas and their ilk give up the "death to the Jews" stuff, and Kurdish lieutenants are no longer worried about their Arab citizens further south attacking Jews, we stick with the concept that the idea that many Arabs want to kill all the Jews is indeed NOT "absolutely, categorically wrong".

Also see http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1877.htm (Gaza television).

He is not talking about "destroying Israel" in the sense that the US "destroyed" the Soviet Union (i.e. the country still exists and the people are alive). He is talking about his belief that all Jews must be killed. And lots of people in the Arab world support that view.