Hmm, I'm glad you guys don't run the world. It would be a vile place then (read your posts and then guess how I came to that conclusion).

Which 'guys' are you referring to?

Ghostman, let me clarify. Aussies have always been willing to risk their lives to do what is right. During WWII, Australia's 20,000 Thieves held off Rommel in the desert without benefit of air or armor support, until the 8th Army and the Americans were able to relieve them. No question of their courage.

Specifically, I questioned Syria, Libya and the Palestinian States willingness to oppose terrorism. Without these countries, the war will be prolonged. With their support, Bin Laden can be arrested, tried for crimes against humanity and punished.

One has to wonder what kind of country would give Bin Laden aid? North Korea, as totalitarian a dictatorship as you can find, today voiced it's opposition to the US and British efforts to bring Bin Laden to justice. This is as inconceivable to me as a government that would help the Nazis arrest and murder its own citizens. As was done in Vichy France, for example.

I'm very disappointed that you Frogboy understand what I said in that way... As far as my knowledge in history is concerned, well I would give the address of my web site, but I'm a specialist of the history of the 20th century So what would I say : I don't have an utopic point of view, but a realistic one. I wouldn't say that we shouldn't make war, but I just say I think this war hasn't begun on good bases, since the opinion of 95% of the world has pressurized the United States so that they find someone guilty as quick as possible : I would never say that Ben Laden is not the right guilty man, but just that all this hasn't been done cold-headed...

As a former ''Regular'' and Vietnam double tour returnee, I am very cynical of those who ''wrap themselves in the flag'' and bay for war!
Frogboy, I doubt if you have ever been under fire or even worn a uniform......killing people while avoiding their attempts at returning the favour is not pleasant.
As horrendous as it was, the WTC incident is not unexpected, the US being one of the most disliked nations on the planet, in many cases unjustifed, in others deservedly so.
While 100,000+ Turks can be killed in an earthquake, or the Pakistanis might lose more in a flood, all they receive is a 15 second grab on CNN and a single page 3 half column in the Times!
Why ''disliked'' you ask?
Bungled military operations litter the past 20 years or so, Vietnam, Granada, Panama, not forgetting the unfinished business in the Gulf and the Balkans.
More than this, a disturbingly blinkered view of anything beyond the Canadian or Mexican borders, or the East and West coasts.
Unpalatable truths, but they remain so.
John A Lancaster.
Ex 1SAS/3RAR.

Earthquakes and floods are "acts of god". Ramming airplanes into buildings are acts of man. And did I say I bay for war? No. But those who disagree with US policy should at least put together an alternative that is going to be EFFECTIVE.

And I don't think I need to be shot at in order to have an opinion on the matter. Our military, btw, is a volunteer force. If a person comes in and kills my family, I think it okay for me to demand that the policy do what is necessary to bring the murders and their associates to justice without me having ever been a police officer.

If someone has a better solution than what the US is pursuing, then go ahead, present it. But there better be good reason to think it will be effective.

History has shown that military force IS effective. Give us an alternative.

I personnally didn't say that I disagreed with US policy : I just say the contrary, that is to say that we hadn't let the US policy do his job in good conditions. I just hope I wasn't included in the "THOSE who disagree with US policy"

Military force is effective against a distiguishable target. Eliminate that target and the problem is solved. Unfortunately, this is not a one on one situation. Eliminate the target and you give rise to other threats all across the globe who see this elimination as a threat to themselves. This means you'll keep fighting and fighting and it will never really stop. It will just knock out the current threat for now.

Kill Ben Ladden in action and he will be even more dangerous dead than he was alive. He will be raised to the staus of hero of war.
Bring him to justice, show him in the face of the World with cuffs at the wrists and ankles, lock him up in a cell on death row for a few years. Show the World the criminal he really is, not a great courageous general. Because, right now, a lot of people are seeing him as a David who has the courage to oppose the Goliath that the US are.
Let's not make him a hero, but this war might just do that...

There are lots of people who hate in the world. But you can take away their means to carry out their hate.

But you can't take away their means, that's the problem... There are just too many way they can be carried.

So what's your suggestion, paxx? Just throw our hands in the air and not do anything at all?

No, I didn't say that.
I think there two issues here and they they get thrown into the same basket.
First, the Ben Ladden case and his accomplisses. I think that they should be arrested and trialed as criminals. I explained that issue in my above posts.
Second, the Taliban case. They quite obviously are an ennemy to their own people and deserve to be taken down. But that is such a delicate matter that I don't know what the solution is, really. There are a lot of other countries with leaders who deserve just as much to be overthrown.

As far as terrorism in general is concerned, it will unfortunately always be a threat. The only defense against it is strong intelligence services. And to try not to get too many people to hate you and choose you as a target. Tat's why I said the second issue above was a delicate one, and that is alos why I think Ben Ladden should be shown as the criminal that he is, not as a war hero and martyr. Oh, and if he is tried, it is imperative that the trial be held in another country hat the US, perhaps in Afganistan once the Taliban have been dealt with...

Personally, the whole world was just waiting for the French to be outraged (we all knew they would be eventually). There's a lot of symbolic posturing in France--it's too bad it's not backed up with rockets. The only reason France and its citizens maintain their typical air of outrage about American retaliation is that they are not picking their cheese-eating-surrender-monkey asses out of the rubble of the Eiffel Tower. If that had been hit, they would be dropping their wine and cheese quickly enough and asking for help (which they usually get from other countries, like the US, but don't deserve). France should just shut the f*ck up, sit back, and leave the fighting to the people who know how to kick ass.

Wow, that was a sensible post. I'm impressed.