Its good for the community
Published on March 2, 2005 By Larry Kuperman In Blogging
I come to JoeUser to write, to read, to comment and to learn. I learn most from people that are different from me, that offer ideas and perspectives that I would never have thought of. I don't think that I am unique in this. But civility is a requirement. When things degenerate into "flame wars" or simple meanness, neither side listens or benefits.

One of my dear friends is our own BakerStreet. I know BakerStreet from the skinning community and he has always had my respect and admiration. We disagree about a lot of things. In fact we first started corresponding on a thread regarding gun control that began during the sniper attacks. We were on opposite sides of the issue and to this day probably disagree on more points than we agree. But I was most impressed by BakerStreet's command of the facts and ability to marshall cogent arguments. In the intervening years, he has taught me much. I like to think of him as a friend. He certainly has my admiration.

O G San and shadesofgrey were introduced to me via threads discussing Palestine. Again, we disagreed more than we agreed. Their arguments were so well reasoned and well marshalled that, again, I learned a great deal. I like to think that a friendship grew from our discussions.

But not everyone seems to take this tack. Some people seem to think that height is a relative thing. If they belittle someone in a hurtful manner, they think that it somehow makes them taller. News flash...it doesn't. It only increases the amount of pain in the world. Believe me, there is enough of that already.

The people that I respect most create new things in the world. They elevate those around them. Michael Jordan in basketball made his team mates better. Just ask Scottie Pippen. They have self-esteem from what they do, from what they accomplish, not form lowering those around them.

Not all the articles on JoeUser are to my taste. People sometimes write things that I regard as silly or childish. In those cases, I ignore them. I don't need to challenge everything. And I certainly see no benefit to insulting anyone. It has no relevance to me.

It is my observation that people who insult others, who openly provoke, have little to offer themselves. They do not make positive contributions because they lack the ability or commitment to do so. I would hazard the guess that they have shallow, unhappy lives. Rather than saying or doing something positive, they try to spreadd their unhappiness around. There is a woderful Elvis Costello lyric about how "Everybody has to feel his pain."

I have linked to an article on Internet Trolls. A comment that seems most germane is the definition of a Troll:

"An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it)."

What a sad, sad thing it must be to be a Troll.

Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Mar 02, 2005
I prefer to be called an ogre... I know I piss some off and do not mean personal harm.. jusst doing what Ogre's do crunch and eat bones
on Mar 02, 2005
MM, I describe a pair of shoes and you say they fit you? Well, if the shoe fits.... Kidding, I was just kidding!

Lest anyone think that I was seriously talking about Moderateman, I have read his blog on many occasions. If anyone missed his post on Operation Silverlance, you should go read it NOW. See http://moderateman.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=67064. It is short, but eloquent.

Silverlance occured in 1965, during the Vietnam War (although I guess it was still a "police action" in '65.) When MM dies, he's going to Heaven, 'cause he already served his time in....well, you know the rest.

Thank you, MM, for fighting for my freedom.
on Mar 02, 2005
Reply By: Larry KupermanPosted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005MM, I describe a pair of shoes and you say they fit you? Well, if the shoe fits.... Kidding, I was just kidding!Lest anyone think that I was seriously talking about Moderateman, I have read his blog on many occasions. If anyone missed his post on Operation Silverlance, you should go read it NOW. See http://moderateman.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=67064. It is short, but eloquent.Silverlance occured in 1965, during the Vietnam War (although I guess it was still a "police action" in '65.) When MM dies, he's going to Heaven, 'cause he already served his time in....well, you know the rest. Thank you, MM, for fighting for my freedom.


yer welcome he said in gravely tear filled voice... and yeh some here see me assa ogre and a troll... their loss,

Most of your posts are way over my head... this poor simple uneducated man don't know much but i do know a kind and wise heart when I see it,, and you got them both.
on Mar 02, 2005
Is very good article, thank you for posting it.
on Mar 02, 2005
"but i do know a kind and wise heart when I see it"

I posted what I thought and look what you gave me back. Thus proving that you reap what you sow. You have made my night.

Thanks.
on Mar 03, 2005
Thank you Kupe. You don't know how much that means, or how helpful it was to hear that about now. I feel very lucky to be able to claim you as a friend.
on Mar 03, 2005
Kupe, as always you are the voice of reason in an unreasonable world.

Thank you for the reminder....
on Mar 03, 2005
Your post is a proverbial bright star in the JU universe, thank you for a well thought out presentation of the positive.
I personally have refrained from controversial topics in order to avoid the trolling attacks ( just look at the responses to my Boy Scout post ).
You are now on my read list!!
on Mar 03, 2005
Excellent article Kupe.

There are those who even admit they write inflammatory, spitefilled posts to get the attention. It is sad to see. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
on Mar 03, 2005
Whenever I see an article which is an obvious attack on another person, it tends to say more to me about the author than the intended target.

This article is right to the point and right on target. Personally, I prefer to write about things that I actually care about. If I disagree with someone on a topic I care about, I won't hesitate to voice my side of things in a hopefully intelligent manner. Personal attacks serve only to diminish the writer and reveal a lack of substantive base for debate.

Good article, thanks for posting it.
on Mar 03, 2005
Great article Larry! I havent seen much of you or OG around here lately, so it's nice to get to read an article from you once in a while.

like to think that a friendship grew from our discussions.


It definitely did. When I've got five minutes to think, I'd like to take a stab at rekindling the Road Map for Peace site.
on Mar 03, 2005
And is usually is a he? Comments like that sadly frusterate me. To be Clumped into a group of other individuals that committed some act that you disagree with, and then claiming that you feel it is wrong to go around purposely making hurtful statements. That is hypocrisy at its very worse. I agree that there are alot of nasty people on the internet, but pray do not include me in them in your generalizations.
on Mar 03, 2005
Thank you Kupe. You don't know how much that means, or how helpful it was to hear that about now.


Baker,

And I feel you are quite deserving of the accolade. While you and I have disagreed on a number of issues, you have kept the disagreements on topic and not allowed it to become personal...always the mark of a true intellectual.
on Mar 03, 2005
Slightly bewildered (what an apt name you have chosen, props to you!), the quotation marks indicate that I was quoting from the article entitled Internet Trolls, which I also linked to. But let me reply further.

There is a difference between a statistic, which can be measured and verified, and a prejudice. I would say from personal experience that the author is correct and most trolls are male. Here is a good article on Trolls from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll and here is picture of a Troll in his native habitat http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm

shadesofgrey, thanks and I do hope to get back to the roadmap.

MasonM, thanks and nice to se you around.
on Mar 03, 2005
Hehe, really good article. People can disagree it's just too bad they dont know how to disagree without getting their daily drop of blood (trolls are in fact vampires you see), lol. But yep, you get an insightful from me
2 Pages1 2